Discussion:
Summer Starts Early in EU - Big Probs
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26xh.0717
2024-06-02 03:47:44 UTC
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Permalink
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.

Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.

This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.

As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
Jan Panteltje
2024-06-02 05:02:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
26xh.0717
2024-06-02 06:15:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.

Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".

In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.

So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
Jan Panteltje
2024-06-02 11:18:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:15:21 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.
Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".
There are many good lessons to be learned from history
and history has this tendency to repeat itself....
And there are the Milankovich Cycles:
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Post by 26xh.0717
In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.
So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
Maybe this helps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
Personally I have been a veggy now since 1979...
But it all depends on what's available,
never tried human meat though, apart from when in kindergarten I did byte a kid in the arm in a fight
when he insulted my mother.
Mother then told me not to byte human beings anymore...
Humans are way too fat anyways these days I've read :-)
But when necessary ;-)

There was a good program on German TV last week (zdf-info I think it was?) about the collapse of the bronze age
where leaders from Africa asked (letter recovered) Faraos for help as their harvest had failed and they were dying of hunger.

We are in a solar sunspot maximum too... Maybe that has some effect as well?
Anyways all this climate change will lead to mass migration, famine, fights.
To cope we need to bring as much power generation online as we can for the aircos we will need,
for water purifying, what not.
The danger with the brainwashed green fanatic kids is that they want to destroy all that
while being incapable to build all that stuff, many do not even know how to connect a light bulb.
I designed stuff for power stations..
We need DIVERSITY in power generation..
keep oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar and wind..
Same for cars, transport.,
Once big solar storm an no more electricity, then no more emergency services
if all goes electric.
One big storm and solar panels are gone, one big hail storm the same.
One big volcanic eruption and no more solar power,
no wind for a while and that source is gone.
26xh.0717
2024-06-03 00:52:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:15:21 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.
Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".
There are many good lessons to be learned from history
and history has this tendency to repeat itself....
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Never EXACTLY repeats - that'd be too convenient.
In any case the constant factor is HUMANS, how
we are wired, how we react.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.
So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
Personally I have been a veggy now since 1979...
But it all depends on what's available,
never tried human meat though, apart from when in kindergarten I did byte a kid in the arm in a fight
when he insulted my mother.
Mother then told me not to byte human beings anymore...
Humans are way too fat anyways these days I've read :-)
But when necessary ;-)
I wonder if that kid still has tooth-marks ?

Anyway, humans are too full of diseases - you'd
have to go for extra-well-done .... :-)

As for veg ... kinda pointless, but if that's your
thing ... more chickens for me.

Oh ... if jellies do displace most fish, that's
a big drop in the global food supply (doubly so
in Japan). It means a lot more land will have to
go under the plow and to pasture, shortages and
higher prices overall. Ecosystems become monocultures.
Post by Jan Panteltje
There was a good program on German TV last week (zdf-info I think it was?) about the collapse of the bronze age
where leaders from Africa asked (letter recovered) Faraos for help as their harvest had failed and they were dying of hunger.
I was promoting a YouTube series about the fall of the
bronze age here just a couple of weeks ago. Cheap
animation, but lots of good info. Seems to have been
mostly an issue of critical inter-dependence ... one
or two sources of 'X' go and that causes makers
of 'Y' to go and, and ... similar situation to the
current global economy. Some bad weather may have
also contributed to the demise of those old cities.
Once weakened, the sea pirates attacked and sacked
everything.
Post by Jan Panteltje
We are in a solar sunspot maximum too... Maybe that has some effect as well?
Ummmm ... I'm gonna say 'doubtful'. MIGHT lead to more
lightning storms however, those ultra-speed charged
particles seem to help spark off things. This effect
has been noticed before.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Anyways all this climate change will lead to mass migration, famine, fights.
Well there's the trick, as said there's no such thing
as "normal" weather. Dry can go to floods, wet can go
to desert, hot to cold. The Sumerians got stung badly,
that area was a green plain way back then, now baked
sand. Same for the Olmec and Mayans - everything dried
up for 100 years. You stake your claim, build your
infrastructure and society, and then Nature gives
you the finger.
Post by Jan Panteltje
To cope we need to bring as much power generation online as we can for the aircos we will need,
for water purifying, what not.
Water desalination will become more and more important.
While I've heard of some novel lower-energy methods they
do not seem very real world. Traditional open-air farming
may go away in a lot of places too ... everything under
plastic & hydroponics. This all will significantly push
up energy consumption. PV panels are fairly good now,
but the price is still too high. Wind-farms have problems.
Nuke is fair, but we still can't figure out what to do
with the leftovers (I suggested the antarctic somewhere).
They keep talking 'fusion' but that's FAR from any kind
of practical app, and may always be. It's a problem.

Maybe "food" will cease to be 'natural' - made from
basic chemicals instead on an industrial scale because,
for the above reasons, farming will become too unstable
an enterprise. Best result, something like "Pop-Tarts".
Worst result, Soylent Green.
Post by Jan Panteltje
The danger with the brainwashed green fanatic kids is that they want to destroy all that
while being incapable to build all that stuff, many do not even know how to connect a light bulb.
The kiddies think the food appears by magic in the
convenience stores and pizza joints. The vast web
of industries. innovation and transport required
to produce that illusion - it's all invisible to
the kiddies. Sure, ban all IC engines now - they
think they'll just stay home more, play video
games and order-out for pizza. They cannot
imagine another kind of reality.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I designed stuff for power stations..
They still haven't got all the emergent behaviors
out of distribution systems :-)
Post by Jan Panteltje
We need DIVERSITY in power generation..
Absolutely !
Post by Jan Panteltje
keep oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar and wind..
Same for cars, transport.,
Once big solar storm an no more electricity, then no more emergency services
if all goes electric.
One big storm and solar panels are gone, one big hail storm the same.
One big volcanic eruption and no more solar power,
no wind for a while and that source is gone.
The highest-grade solar storm IS possible. Dunno if we
will ever see it, but it WOULD roast most electronics
and even bulk power systems. It would crash the world.
The humorous bit is that the same thing could have
happened in the early 1800s and nobody would have
noticed a thing. Today the whole world dangles from
a high-tension wire ... and there's no good 'diversity'
option for that.

Oh well, you can become a goat herder in Afghanistan.
THEY wouldn't notice the mega-storm.
Jan Panteltje
2024-06-03 10:49:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 20:52:04 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:15:21 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.
Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".
There are many good lessons to be learned from history
and history has this tendency to repeat itself....
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Never EXACTLY repeats - that'd be too convenient.
In any case the constant factor is HUMANS, how
we are wired, how we react.
Yep,
and as our weapons get ever more powerful total destruction may become more likely.
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.
So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
Personally I have been a veggy now since 1979...
But it all depends on what's available,
never tried human meat though, apart from when in kindergarten I did byte a kid in the arm in a fight
when he insulted my mother.
Mother then told me not to byte human beings anymore...
Humans are way too fat anyways these days I've read :-)
But when necessary ;-)
I wonder if that kid still has tooth-marks ?
I dunno, that was in Amsterdam, we moved to the country shortly after that.
I did miss Amsterdam though.
Years later returned and had a TV repair shop there.
Post by 26xh.0717
Anyway, humans are too full of diseases - you'd
have to go for extra-well-done .... :-)
As for veg ... kinda pointless, but if that's your
thing ... more chickens for me.
Oh ... if jellies do displace most fish, that's
a big drop in the global food supply (doubly so
in Japan). It means a lot more land will have to
go under the plow and to pasture, shortages and
higher prices overall. Ecosystems become monocultures.
Post by Jan Panteltje
There was a good program on German TV last week (zdf-info I think it was?) about the collapse of the bronze age
where leaders from Africa asked (letter recovered) Faraos for help as their harvest had failed and they were dying of hunger.
I was promoting a YouTube series about the fall of the
bronze age here just a couple of weeks ago. Cheap
animation, but lots of good info. Seems to have been
mostly an issue of critical inter-dependence ... one
or two sources of 'X' go and that causes makers
of 'Y' to go and, and ... similar situation to the
current global economy. Some bad weather may have
also contributed to the demise of those old cities.
Once weakened, the sea pirates attacked and sacked
everything.
Exactly, that was also mentioned in that program
I thought 'sea pirates? Maybe Vikings?' But those came later, 860 or so they took Italy..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age
What Italy sees now is thousands of boats with fugitives from Africa and other places..
some fleeing from wars, others for climate..
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We are in a solar sunspot maximum too... Maybe that has some effect as well?
Ummmm ... I'm gonna say 'doubtful'. MIGHT lead to more
lightning storms however, those ultra-speed charged
particles seem to help spark off things. This effect
has been noticed before.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Anyways all this climate change will lead to mass migration, famine, fights.
Well there's the trick, as said there's no such thing
as "normal" weather. Dry can go to floods, wet can go
to desert, hot to cold. The Sumerians got stung badly,
that area was a green plain way back then, now baked
sand. Same for the Olmec and Mayans - everything dried
up for 100 years. You stake your claim, build your
infrastructure and society, and then Nature gives
you the finger.
Post by Jan Panteltje
To cope we need to bring as much power generation online as we can for the aircos we will need,
for water purifying, what not.
Water desalination will become more and more important.
While I've heard of some novel lower-energy methods they
do not seem very real world. Traditional open-air farming
may go away in a lot of places too ... everything under
plastic & hydroponics. This all will significantly push
up energy consumption. PV panels are fairly good now,
but the price is still too high. Wind-farms have problems.
Nuke is fair, but we still can't figure out what to do
with the leftovers (I suggested the antarctic somewhere).
Maybe in the Mariana trench?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench
but then some green kids will complain that it kills some deep water creatures...
Dump it on the moon? Send it into the sun?
Post by 26xh.0717
They keep talking 'fusion' but that's FAR from any kind
of practical app, and may always be. It's a problem.
I have written about fusion:
"If you cannot do it with those small particles on the workbench then you cannot do it with a machine the size of the universe."
Fusion itself has been done even by kids:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
wanted to build one myself..
Break-even is an other thing.
I am not sure ITER will ever work.
Post by 26xh.0717
Maybe "food" will cease to be 'natural' - made from
basic chemicals instead on an industrial scale because,
for the above reasons, farming will become too unstable
an enterprise. Best result, something like "Pop-Tarts".
Worst result, Soylent Green.
Post by Jan Panteltje
The danger with the brainwashed green fanatic kids is that they want to destroy all that
while being incapable to build all that stuff, many do not even know how to connect a light bulb.
The kiddies think the food appears by magic in the
convenience stores and pizza joints. The vast web
of industries. innovation and transport required
to produce that illusion - it's all invisible to
the kiddies. Sure, ban all IC engines now - they
think they'll just stay home more, play video
games and order-out for pizza. They cannot
imagine another kind of reality.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I designed stuff for power stations..
They still haven't got all the emergent behaviors
out of distribution systems :-)
Lots of automation, electronics, makes thing vulnerable - hackers / enemies.. IT warfare...
I started as my first job in 1968 designing stuff for power stations, army, navy, telcos, all high power stuff.
Not really my thing, but mother told me (after I did all the exams and set in the sun listening to
radio all day) 'get a job'.
After one year I left that high power stuff and got a job at the national TV network, 6 month payed for training too, more exams
TV had always been my thing, maybe the portable TV camera I had designed got me the job..
And less dangerous than working on those navy ships..
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We need DIVERSITY in power generation..
Absolutely !
Post by Jan Panteltje
keep oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar and wind..
Same for cars, transport.,
Once big solar storm an no more electricity, then no more emergency services
if all goes electric.
One big storm and solar panels are gone, one big hail storm the same.
One big volcanic eruption and no more solar power,
no wind for a while and that source is gone.
The highest-grade solar storm IS possible. Dunno if we
will ever see it, but it WOULD roast most electronics
and even bulk power systems. It would crash the world.
The humorous bit is that the same thing could have
happened in the early 1800s and nobody would have
noticed a thing. Today the whole world dangles from
a high-tension wire ... and there's no good 'diversity'
option for that.
Oh well, you can become a goat herder in Afghanistan.
THEY wouldn't notice the mega-storm.
Right
just alarm test here (NLalert), sirens, message on my phone
wonder how they will reach people when electricity fails.
tell them what to do, what is going on,
you would need petrol based cars with speakers or something.
26xh.0717
2024-06-04 04:12:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 20:52:04 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:15:21 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.
Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".
There are many good lessons to be learned from history
and history has this tendency to repeat itself....
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Never EXACTLY repeats - that'd be too convenient.
In any case the constant factor is HUMANS, how
we are wired, how we react.
Yep,
and as our weapons get ever more powerful total destruction may become more likely.
The same "big club over the head" psychology exists,
but these days our 'clubs' are MUCH larger.

Oh well, we can hope for (friendly) aliens showing
up and changing the paradigm - but I'm not gonna
count on it.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.
So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
Personally I have been a veggy now since 1979...
But it all depends on what's available,
never tried human meat though, apart from when in kindergarten I did byte a kid in the arm in a fight
when he insulted my mother.
Mother then told me not to byte human beings anymore...
Humans are way too fat anyways these days I've read :-)
But when necessary ;-)
I wonder if that kid still has tooth-marks ?
I dunno, that was in Amsterdam, we moved to the country shortly after that.
I did miss Amsterdam though.
Years later returned and had a TV repair shop there.
Times past ... nobody "fixes" TVs anymore, they
just throw them in the bin. They either work or
they are not worth repair attempts.

Amsterdam WOULD have been fun in the 60s/70s
though :-)
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Anyway, humans are too full of diseases - you'd
have to go for extra-well-done .... :-)
As for veg ... kinda pointless, but if that's your
thing ... more chickens for me.
Oh ... if jellies do displace most fish, that's
a big drop in the global food supply (doubly so
in Japan). It means a lot more land will have to
go under the plow and to pasture, shortages and
higher prices overall. Ecosystems become monocultures.
Post by Jan Panteltje
There was a good program on German TV last week (zdf-info I think it was?) about the collapse of the bronze age
where leaders from Africa asked (letter recovered) Faraos for help as their harvest had failed and they were dying of hunger.
I was promoting a YouTube series about the fall of the
bronze age here just a couple of weeks ago. Cheap
animation, but lots of good info. Seems to have been
mostly an issue of critical inter-dependence ... one
or two sources of 'X' go and that causes makers
of 'Y' to go and, and ... similar situation to the
current global economy. Some bad weather may have
also contributed to the demise of those old cities.
Once weakened, the sea pirates attacked and sacked
everything.
Exactly, that was also mentioned in that program
I thought 'sea pirates? Maybe Vikings?' But those came later, 860 or so they took Italy..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age
What Italy sees now is thousands of boats with fugitives from Africa and other places..
some fleeing from wars, others for climate..
No, the raiders were decidedly not Vikings. By the
best descriptions, and a few likely artifacts, they
seem to have been a rag-tag coalition of several
Med cultural groups that took to raiding for a
living. Their raids DID have a "Viking-like"
ferocity however and no victim was successful
at repelling them. All the big cities in the
eastern Med fell to them and the Bronze Age
was basically OVER.

If you can search posts, look for "Bronze" in the
subject and you'll probably find my link. I found
the start point from a Greek Reporter article.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We are in a solar sunspot maximum too... Maybe that has some effect as well?
Ummmm ... I'm gonna say 'doubtful'. MIGHT lead to more
lightning storms however, those ultra-speed charged
particles seem to help spark off things. This effect
has been noticed before.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Anyways all this climate change will lead to mass migration, famine, fights.
Well there's the trick, as said there's no such thing
as "normal" weather. Dry can go to floods, wet can go
to desert, hot to cold. The Sumerians got stung badly,
that area was a green plain way back then, now baked
sand. Same for the Olmec and Mayans - everything dried
up for 100 years. You stake your claim, build your
infrastructure and society, and then Nature gives
you the finger.
Post by Jan Panteltje
To cope we need to bring as much power generation online as we can for the aircos we will need,
for water purifying, what not.
Water desalination will become more and more important.
While I've heard of some novel lower-energy methods they
do not seem very real world. Traditional open-air farming
may go away in a lot of places too ... everything under
plastic & hydroponics. This all will significantly push
up energy consumption. PV panels are fairly good now,
but the price is still too high. Wind-farms have problems.
Nuke is fair, but we still can't figure out what to do
with the leftovers (I suggested the antarctic somewhere).
Maybe in the Mariana trench?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench
but then some green kids will complain that it kills some deep water creatures...
Dump it on the moon? Send it into the sun?
Post by 26xh.0717
They keep talking 'fusion' but that's FAR from any kind
of practical app, and may always be. It's a problem.
"If you cannot do it with those small particles on the workbench then you cannot do it with a machine the size of the universe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
wanted to build one myself..
Break-even is an other thing.
I am not sure ITER will ever work.
They now allege to have reached "break even" in a few
mega-lab experiments. However that's a VERY special
(and insanely expensive) environment. Converting that
to PRACTICAL, industrial-scale, power generation is
still VERY far - perhaps infinitely far - away.

For "clean(er) energy" it looks to be PVs, hydro
and nuke for the most part.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Maybe "food" will cease to be 'natural' - made from
basic chemicals instead on an industrial scale because,
for the above reasons, farming will become too unstable
an enterprise. Best result, something like "Pop-Tarts".
Worst result, Soylent Green.
Post by Jan Panteltje
The danger with the brainwashed green fanatic kids is that they want to destroy all that
while being incapable to build all that stuff, many do not even know how to connect a light bulb.
The kiddies think the food appears by magic in the
convenience stores and pizza joints. The vast web
of industries. innovation and transport required
to produce that illusion - it's all invisible to
the kiddies. Sure, ban all IC engines now - they
think they'll just stay home more, play video
games and order-out for pizza. They cannot
imagine another kind of reality.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I designed stuff for power stations..
They still haven't got all the emergent behaviors
out of distribution systems :-)
Lots of automation, electronics, makes thing vulnerable - hackers / enemies.. IT warfare...
I started as my first job in 1968 designing stuff for power stations, army, navy, telcos, all high power stuff.
Not really my thing, but mother told me (after I did all the exams and set in the sun listening to
radio all day) 'get a job'.
After one year I left that high power stuff and got a job at the national TV network, 6 month payed for training too, more exams
TV had always been my thing, maybe the portable TV camera I had designed got me the job..
And less dangerous than working on those navy ships..
I was mostly computers/electronics. However my father
did the high-power electrics for industrial, space and
naval applications and taught me a fair bit. As such
I was also the 'company electrician' and got to build
control panels for some medium-sized polyphase stuff
amongst other things.

There's an advantage to being a "MacGyver" (unsure the
EU knows that reference) because work was rarely dull,
always some new project, from microcontrollers right up
to the metal forming and welding and such - whatever it
took to realize the goal. My first 'PC' was a PDP-11
with a card reader & TTY, though some fun new things
called "personal computers" appeared shortly thereafter.

Oddly, in college, I studied biology/biochem ... one
class had only ONE question for the final exam, follow
an isotope-labeled carbon atom through the Krebs
metabolic cycle (and you had to include molecular
drawings, associated enzymes and afterproducts).
I think only two of us passed that test :-)

Now, I only remember the first enzyme ...
glucose-6-phosphatase.

In any case, as is SO common, you often start in
one place and wind up somewhere entirely different.
Computers were just *too cool* to ignore, so ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We need DIVERSITY in power generation..
Absolutely !
Post by Jan Panteltje
keep oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar and wind..
Same for cars, transport.,
Once big solar storm an no more electricity, then no more emergency services
if all goes electric.
One big storm and solar panels are gone, one big hail storm the same.
One big volcanic eruption and no more solar power,
no wind for a while and that source is gone.
The highest-grade solar storm IS possible. Dunno if we
will ever see it, but it WOULD roast most electronics
and even bulk power systems. It would crash the world.
The humorous bit is that the same thing could have
happened in the early 1800s and nobody would have
noticed a thing. Today the whole world dangles from
a high-tension wire ... and there's no good 'diversity'
option for that.
Oh well, you can become a goat herder in Afghanistan.
THEY wouldn't notice the mega-storm.
Right
just alarm test here (NLalert), sirens, message on my phone
wonder how they will reach people when electricity fails.
tell them what to do, what is going on,
you would need petrol based cars with speakers or something.
The "town crier" will have to be resurrected.

Then news filters out from the city center, amassing
more and more errors with every gen of "heard from" :-)

Especially in storm-prone areas of the USA, a lot
of people have solar (or even charger-crank)
powered AM/FM radios because a large hurricane
or blizzard might bring down the power grid
for weeks (been there, experienced that). Little
generators require FUEL - and that QUICKLY
runs out.

SO ... 'communication with the people' might not
completely collapse. Some older govt transmitters
are still mostly valve-based and there is still
a fairly large network of short-wave operators,
some using 1920s/1930s equipment for fun. Alas a
HUGE solar flare may even nuke such simple
electronics.
Jan Panteltje
2024-06-04 09:42:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On a sunny day (Tue, 4 Jun 2024 00:12:40 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 20:52:04 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sun, 2 Jun 2024 02:15:21 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
On a sunny day (Sat, 1 Jun 2024 23:47:44 -0400) it happened "26xh.0717"
Post by 26xh.0717
Severe heat/drought -or- huge floods. This already
defines summer in the EU.
Blame GW if you want, maybe so - maybe not, but
what is, IS.
This seems to be at least the short-term pattern,
very similar to the last couple of years. Global
weather shifts, always has. And yes, Europe HAS
seen similar over the decades, centuries and
millenia - even before SUVs. So has the rest of
the world. What happened to the Mayan and Olmec
empires - severe drought - rain-forest turned
brown and all the crops died.
As such, "normal" weather is a LIE. The picture
is much larger and more nuanced.
And us producing CO2 has nothing to do with it
Probably a LITTLE ...
Post by Jan Panteltje
That is just an other sales trip invented by Al Gore and his polar bear crap.
Humans ARE now a big enough thing to have
effects on the weather. However how MUCH
is debatable. You can't debate AlGore and
friends though, they've already made up
their minds to obliterate western civ.
Wonder if they think the New Masters will
be "better" ??? History says "NO !".
There are many good lessons to be learned from history
and history has this tendency to repeat itself....
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm
Never EXACTLY repeats - that'd be too convenient.
In any case the constant factor is HUMANS, how
we are wired, how we react.
Yep,
and as our weapons get ever more powerful total destruction may become more likely.
The same "big club over the head" psychology exists,
but these days our 'clubs' are MUCH larger.
Oh well, we can hope for (friendly) aliens showing
up and changing the paradigm - but I'm not gonna
count on it.
Maybe the only thing that will make humanity unite is an alien invasion...
Friendly?
They may keep some of us in their zoos on their planets and use
some of us to test their medicines on, like we now use apes and rats.
Or just enslave us to make stuff for them..
Or just kill us like we kill bugs in places we settle.
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
In any case, climate-shifts are ONGOING and
we're in the middle of one. Next big volcano
might turn that all around, or make it
generally worse.
So, what edibles CAN we make from zillions
of megatons of jellyfish ??? Seems like they
are gonna kind of become the dominant ocean
lifeform in the short term. No more tuna,
no more cod, no more lobster, likely even
no more whale-meat ... just jellies from
pole to pole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish_as_food
Personally I have been a veggy now since 1979...
But it all depends on what's available,
never tried human meat though, apart from when in kindergarten I did byte a kid in the arm in a fight
when he insulted my mother.
Mother then told me not to byte human beings anymore...
Humans are way too fat anyways these days I've read :-)
But when necessary ;-)
I wonder if that kid still has tooth-marks ?
I dunno, that was in Amsterdam, we moved to the country shortly after that.
I did miss Amsterdam though.
Years later returned and had a TV repair shop there.
Times past ... nobody "fixes" TVs anymore, they
just throw them in the bin. They either work or
they are not worth repair attempts.
Yes, seventies, only CRT based sets, no LCDs.
What we did was buy traded in old sets from shops, fix those and sell for a decent price
to the not so rich.
Fixing old sets helped people too.
Post by 26xh.0717
Amsterdam WOULD have been fun in the 60s/70s
though :-)
It was.
lots of interesting places.
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Anyway, humans are too full of diseases - you'd
have to go for extra-well-done .... :-)
As for veg ... kinda pointless, but if that's your
thing ... more chickens for me.
Oh ... if jellies do displace most fish, that's
a big drop in the global food supply (doubly so
in Japan). It means a lot more land will have to
go under the plow and to pasture, shortages and
higher prices overall. Ecosystems become monocultures.
Post by Jan Panteltje
There was a good program on German TV last week (zdf-info I think it was?) about the collapse of the bronze age
where leaders from Africa asked (letter recovered) Faraos for help as their harvest had failed and they were dying of
hunger.
I was promoting a YouTube series about the fall of the
bronze age here just a couple of weeks ago. Cheap
animation, but lots of good info. Seems to have been
mostly an issue of critical inter-dependence ... one
or two sources of 'X' go and that causes makers
of 'Y' to go and, and ... similar situation to the
current global economy. Some bad weather may have
also contributed to the demise of those old cities.
Once weakened, the sea pirates attacked and sacked
everything.
Exactly, that was also mentioned in that program
I thought 'sea pirates? Maybe Vikings?' But those came later, 860 or so they took Italy..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age
What Italy sees now is thousands of boats with fugitives from Africa and other places..
some fleeing from wars, others for climate..
No, the raiders were decidedly not Vikings. By the
best descriptions, and a few likely artifacts, they
seem to have been a rag-tag coalition of several
Med cultural groups that took to raiding for a
living. Their raids DID have a "Viking-like"
ferocity however and no victim was successful
at repelling them. All the big cities in the
eastern Med fell to them and the Bronze Age
was basically OVER.
If you can search posts, look for "Bronze" in the
subject and you'll probably find my link. I found
the start point from a Greek Reporter article.
I wrote this Usenet reader, NewsFleX in 1998 when I got hold of a Linux distro that came as CD with a magazine
and as there was no Free Agent newsreader for Linux; its database goes back for some postings now to 2005.
some old version in an old 486 PC in the attic goes back even further.
But no trace of you 26xh.0717 and I subscribed to this groups just a few month ago..
google groups shows mainly spam postings for alt.survival, nothing on Bronze.
Did not google groups stop altogether for Usenet?
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We are in a solar sunspot maximum too... Maybe that has some effect as well?
Ummmm ... I'm gonna say 'doubtful'. MIGHT lead to more
lightning storms however, those ultra-speed charged
particles seem to help spark off things. This effect
has been noticed before.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Anyways all this climate change will lead to mass migration, famine, fights.
Well there's the trick, as said there's no such thing
as "normal" weather. Dry can go to floods, wet can go
to desert, hot to cold. The Sumerians got stung badly,
that area was a green plain way back then, now baked
sand. Same for the Olmec and Mayans - everything dried
up for 100 years. You stake your claim, build your
infrastructure and society, and then Nature gives
you the finger.
Post by Jan Panteltje
To cope we need to bring as much power generation online as we can for the aircos we will need,
for water purifying, what not.
Water desalination will become more and more important.
While I've heard of some novel lower-energy methods they
do not seem very real world. Traditional open-air farming
may go away in a lot of places too ... everything under
plastic & hydroponics. This all will significantly push
up energy consumption. PV panels are fairly good now,
but the price is still too high. Wind-farms have problems.
Nuke is fair, but we still can't figure out what to do
with the leftovers (I suggested the antarctic somewhere).
Maybe in the Mariana trench?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench
but then some green kids will complain that it kills some deep water creatures...
Dump it on the moon? Send it into the sun?
Post by 26xh.0717
They keep talking 'fusion' but that's FAR from any kind
of practical app, and may always be. It's a problem.
"If you cannot do it with those small particles on the workbench then you cannot do it with a machine the size of the
universe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
wanted to build one myself..
Break-even is an other thing.
I am not sure ITER will ever work.
They now allege to have reached "break even" in a few
mega-lab experiments. However that's a VERY special
(and insanely expensive) environment. Converting that
to PRACTICAL, industrial-scale, power generation is
still VERY far - perhaps infinitely far - away.
Yes, that US thing, 'break even' without counting the megawatts they put in to run it...
There was a discussion about that in sci.electronics.design, it is mostly a training
project to keep the new kids familiar with nuclear stuff.
Post by 26xh.0717
For "clean(er) energy" it looks to be PVs, hydro
and nuke for the most part.
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Maybe "food" will cease to be 'natural' - made from
basic chemicals instead on an industrial scale because,
for the above reasons, farming will become too unstable
an enterprise. Best result, something like "Pop-Tarts".
Worst result, Soylent Green.
Post by Jan Panteltje
The danger with the brainwashed green fanatic kids is that they want to destroy all that
while being incapable to build all that stuff, many do not even know how to connect a light bulb.
The kiddies think the food appears by magic in the
convenience stores and pizza joints. The vast web
of industries. innovation and transport required
to produce that illusion - it's all invisible to
the kiddies. Sure, ban all IC engines now - they
think they'll just stay home more, play video
games and order-out for pizza. They cannot
imagine another kind of reality.
Post by Jan Panteltje
I designed stuff for power stations..
They still haven't got all the emergent behaviors
out of distribution systems :-)
Lots of automation, electronics, makes thing vulnerable - hackers / enemies.. IT warfare...
I started as my first job in 1968 designing stuff for power stations, army, navy, telcos, all high power stuff.
Not really my thing, but mother told me (after I did all the exams and set in the sun listening to
radio all day) 'get a job'.
After one year I left that high power stuff and got a job at the national TV network, 6 month payed for training too, more
exams
TV had always been my thing, maybe the portable TV camera I had designed got me the job..
And less dangerous than working on those navy ships..
I was mostly computers/electronics. However my father
did the high-power electrics for industrial, space and
naval applications and taught me a fair bit. As such
I was also the 'company electrician' and got to build
control panels for some medium-sized polyphase stuff
amongst other things.
There's an advantage to being a "MacGyver" (unsure the
EU knows that reference) because work was rarely dull,
always some new project, from microcontrollers right up
to the metal forming and welding and such - whatever it
took to realize the goal. My first 'PC' was a PDP-11
with a card reader & TTY, though some fun new things
called "personal computers" appeared shortly thereafter.
I have been building electronics using whatever I could find or steal since the fifties as a small kid.
That was the nice part about Amsterdam, all the electronics shops and places...

I left broadcasting in 1976 or so,
the long shifts interfered with other things I wanted to attend in the evenings.
Lived in some community some time, then went to the UK, then on to the US.
Been in many places in the US: NY, LA, Denver, Portland Oregon., Atlanta, Miami, Chicago,
Atlantic city, Boston, Amherst uni, Orlando.. etc etc..
Got arrested when my visa expired and tried to illegally cross the border to Canada... had to leave the US,
was back a few years later after a chat at the embassy here...
Many adventures there, thrown in jail at the Mexican border, with the gangs in NY...
Post by 26xh.0717
Oddly, in college, I studied biology/biochem ... one
class had only ONE question for the final exam, follow
an isotope-labeled carbon atom through the Krebs
metabolic cycle (and you had to include molecular
drawings, associated enzymes and afterproducts).
I think only two of us passed that test :-)
After I refused to do any homework my parents did send me to a boarding school to force me as they wanted me
to complete a university education as I had an IQ test of over 130 or so.
Anyways 3 boarding schools later I ran away and they finally asked me what I wanted to study..
'Electronics' was my reply, so next boarding school was electronics.
From the 30 or so who started in the first year 6 of us passed the final exams.
I never did much homework, already knew it all..
Saying there was: 'Only hobbyists pass the exams'.
Post by 26xh.0717
Now, I only remember the first enzyme ...
glucose-6-phosphatase.
In any case, as is SO common, you often start in
one place and wind up somewhere entirely different.
Computers were just *too cool* to ignore, so ...
When back from some of my travels around the globe I would go to an agency to get some work to have money.
As I was trained to repair things <the show must go on> in zero time
once got a job at a local repair shop.
The guy freaked out when I repaired stuff too fast, he could not charge enough that way,
finally he took a TV set and smashed it on the ground 'now repair this'
I left ..
Agency had a job at the local accelerator facility in Amsterdam, went there,
they had a PDP11, but I was in an other department.
But that and Unix had my attention, bought a book on Unix.
After that I started the TV repair shop.
Then I got hold of a Sinclair ZX80 computer.
wrote some software for it, got a cheap Brother printer, build an interface
and used it to print receipts.
Modified and extended that Z80 thing, wrote a CP/M clone
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/index.html

When Linux became available in 1998 or so I moved to that..
my Unix book had me going in a day,
wrote NewsFleX for Usenet:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
Post by 26xh.0717
Post by Jan Panteltje
We need DIVERSITY in power generation..
Absolutely !
Post by Jan Panteltje
keep oil, gas, coal, nuclear, solar and wind..
Same for cars, transport.,
Once big solar storm an no more electricity, then no more emergency services
if all goes electric.
One big storm and solar panels are gone, one big hail storm the same.
One big volcanic eruption and no more solar power,
no wind for a while and that source is gone.
The highest-grade solar storm IS possible. Dunno if we
will ever see it, but it WOULD roast most electronics
and even bulk power systems. It would crash the world.
The humorous bit is that the same thing could have
happened in the early 1800s and nobody would have
noticed a thing. Today the whole world dangles from
a high-tension wire ... and there's no good 'diversity'
option for that.
Oh well, you can become a goat herder in Afghanistan.
THEY wouldn't notice the mega-storm.
Right
just alarm test here (NLalert), sirens, message on my phone
wonder how they will reach people when electricity fails.
tell them what to do, what is going on,
you would need petrol based cars with speakers or something.
The "town crier" will have to be resurrected.
Then news filters out from the city center, amassing
more and more errors with every gen of "heard from" :-)
Especially in storm-prone areas of the USA, a lot
of people have solar (or even charger-crank)
powered AM/FM radios because a large hurricane
or blizzard might bring down the power grid
for weeks (been there, experienced that). Little
generators require FUEL - and that QUICKLY
runs out.
SO ... 'communication with the people' might not
completely collapse. Some older govt transmitters
are still mostly valve-based and there is still
a fairly large network of short-wave operators,
some using 1920s/1930s equipment for fun. Alas a
HUGE solar flare may even nuke such simple
electronics.
I am also a licensed radio ham, so some communication will likely remain,
have flexible solar panels (for on a boat) that I have tried laying out back in the garden, a 250 Ah battery pack
and a 2 kW pure sinewave converter so I can keep the fridge running and cook things
even the microwave works on it.


I have done electronics work for many things, worked in a big Uni hospital chemical department in Amsterdam
equipment for DNA stuff, mass spectrometer, what not.
Worked for a company that did things for ESA, fast fault finding when launch must go on..
So many different fields
Worked at an airport design department
I think maybe if I would have grown up these day I would have chosen biology, build my own Dino, that is where it may go,
life is everywhere,, some religious forces will deny it:
http://www.gillevin.com/
the Viking experiment on Mars was positive for life.
In those basic experiments trying to replicate life from basic chemicals I miss some temperature cycling
polymerase chain reaction ?
Sun / moon interactions.

My website:
https://panteltje.nl/index1.html
needs some updating...
Plenty in sci.electronics.design
Projects:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/newsflex/download.html
Much software and hardware bloat these days, you can do a lot with little:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/index.html

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