Discussion:
What does "all men are created equal" mean?
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-02 05:42:32 UTC
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If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?

In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 15:45:44 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
What is your alternative? Letting republicans in Congress control
elections in your state?
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-02 21:02:32 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes
count equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the
Electoral College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
In democracies, it is usual for everybody’s vote to count equally.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 21:12:13 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes
count equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the
Electoral College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
Letting republicans in Congress control elections in your state?
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In democracies, it is usual for everybody’s vote to count equally.
So we all go to the Capitol and shout out? Will a voice vote do?
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-02 21:29:12 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In democracies, it is usual for everybody’s vote to count equally.
So we all go to the Capitol and shout out? Will a voice vote do?
In Switzerland, they do a show of hands.

But you might prefer a secret ballot.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 21:33:06 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In democracies, it is usual for everybody’s vote to count equally.
So we all go to the Capitol and shout out? Will a voice vote do?
In Switzerland, they do a show of hands.
But you might prefer a secret ballot.
You want to count 300 million hands. Do not lose your place.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-02 21:45:51 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
You want to count 300 million hands.
You already have a system that does that now. You just need to total them
up better.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 22:03:49 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
You want to count 300 million hands.
You already have a system that does that now. You just need to total them
up better.
No, we do not. Learn what is real before playing the fool.

We have 51 elections on the same day. Each with different rules on
who can vote, how they vote, and how votes are counted. In each
state, each voter has equal weight, but not voters in different
states.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-02 23:18:20 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
You want to count 300 million hands.
You already have a system that does that now. You just need to total
them up better.
No, we do not.
We have 51 elections on the same day. Each with different rules on who
can vote, how they vote, and how votes are counted.
And all, it seems, subject to political interference.

You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 23:47:02 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
We have 51 elections on the same day. Each with different rules on who
can vote, how they vote, and how votes are counted.
And all, it seems, subject to political interference.
Elections are political activities even in Switzerland.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.

Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-03 00:49:23 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.
Which get heavily gerrymandered.
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
Siri Cruise
2024-12-03 01:09:13 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.
Which get heavily gerrymandered.
Irrelevant for presidential and senate elections.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
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J Carlson
2024-12-03 02:05:14 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.
Which get heavily gerrymandered.
Irrelevant for presidential and senate elections.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Fuck off, Narcissist Girl. You don't give an irrelevant list of supposed
scandals, most of them of personal impropriety, dating back 130+ years and get
to claim you said anything. You didn't say anything.

Fuck off.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-03 02:11:00 UTC
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Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up
boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.
Which get heavily gerrymandered.
Irrelevant for presidential and senate elections.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Fuck off, Narcissist Girl. You don't give an irrelevant list of
supposed scandals, most of them of personal impropriety, dating
back 130+ years and get to claim you said anything. You didn't say
anything.
Fuck off.
Here is your binky.

You are so up your own ass you can understand a workable solution.
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J Carlson
2024-12-03 14:11:25 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
You need an independent Electoral Commission to draw up boundaries and run
elections, free of political interference.
We already have boundaries.
Which get heavily gerrymandered.
Irrelevant for presidential and senate elections.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Fuck off, Narcissist Girl. You don't give an irrelevant list of supposed
scandals, most of them of personal impropriety, dating back 130+ years and get
to claim you said anything. You didn't say anything.
Fuck off.
Here is your binky.
Narcissist Girl admits defeat again.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-03 02:16:30 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Don’t you wish your country’s list of political scandals looked like
that?

Yes, we score higher on measures of democratic freedoms than you do.
But that’s not really saying so unusual, let’s face it.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-03 02:24:25 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Don’t you wish your country’s list of political scandals looked like
that?
Yes, we score higher on measures of democratic freedoms than you do.
But that’s not really saying so unusual, let’s face it.
But we are special.
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Anonymous
2024-12-03 04:52:43 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
Post by Siri Cruise
Such a commission would be created by the legislature. Do you know
many parliaments that create commissions without MPs screwing with it?
Yes. Lots of them can manage it. Why not learn from them?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_New_Zealand>
Don’t you wish your country’s list of political scandals looked like
that?
Yes, we score higher on measures of democratic freedoms than you do.
But that’s not really saying so unusual, let’s face it.
What is a "democratic freedom"? Anal sex? Your former leader Horseface
disarmed everyone and converted the entire country to Islam.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
2024-12-03 05:13:12 UTC
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... and converted the entire country to Islam.
“Assalamulaikum” ... not that different from “Shalom Aleichem”.

What’s your Christian greeting?
Siri Cruise
2024-12-03 07:31:28 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
... and converted the entire country to Islam.
“Assalamulaikum” ... not that different from “Shalom Aleichem”.
What’s your Christian greeting?
Pax vobiscum.


The exchange of dress was now accomplished, when a sudden doubt
struck Cedric.

“I know no language,” he said, “but my own, and a few words of
their mincing Norman. How shall I bear myself like a reverend
brother?”

“The spell lies in two words,” replied Wamba—“‘Pax vobiscum’ will
answer all queries. If you go or come, eat or drink, bless or ban,
‘Pax vobiscum’ carries you through it all. It is as useful to a
friar as a broomstick to a witch, or a wand to a conjurer. Speak
it but thus, in a deep grave tone,—‘Pax vobiscum!’—it is
irresistible—Watch and ward, knight and squire, foot and horse, it
acts as a charm upon them all. I think, if they bring me out to be
hanged to-morrow, as is much to be doubted they may, I will try
its weight upon the finisher of the sentence.”

“If such prove the case,” said the master, “my religious orders
are soon taken—‘Pax vobiscum’. I trust I shall remember the
pass-word.—Noble Athelstane, farewell; and farewell, my poor boy,
whose heart might make amends for a weaker head—I will save you,
or return and die with you. The royal blood of our Saxon kings
shall not be spilt while mine beats in my veins; nor shall one
hair fall from the head of the kind knave who risked himself for
his master, if Cedric’s peril can prevent it.—Farewell.”

“Farewell, noble Cedric,” said Athelstane; “remember it is the
true part of a friar to accept refreshment, if you are offered any.”

“Farewell, uncle,” added Wamba; “and remember ‘Pax vobiscum’.”
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J Carlson
2024-12-02 21:36:51 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
A direct popular vote for the president, of course — the only intellectually
defensible method.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-02 21:49:04 UTC
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Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
A direct popular vote for the president, of course — the only
intellectually defensible method.
Who runs the vote? Who decides if mail in ballots are allowed? Who
decides who gets to vote? Who decides who goes on the ballots? Who
prints and distributes the ballots, and then collects up to 300
million ballots and counts them.

And since we do not have anyone doing nationwide elections, we
will have to construct a new system. How many iterations until we
got the problems out of it and the results are trustworthy

Feel free to speak up.

We cannot do this with existing state election systems since
states have incompatible rules. We need uniform rules and a way to
enforce them.

Therefore?
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J Carlson
2024-12-02 23:43:08 UTC
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Post by Siri Cruise
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
A direct popular vote for the president, of course — the only intellectually
defensible method.
Who runs the vote?
The states, as they already do.
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides if mail in ballots are allowed?
Same.
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides who gets to vote?
Federal election law.
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides who goes on the ballots?
The parties and the states, as they now do.
Post by Siri Cruise
Who prints and distributes the ballots,
The states, as they now do.
Post by Siri Cruise
and then collects up to 300 million ballots and counts them.
There are about *half* that many ballots, Narcissist Girl, you fat twat. The
states, via their counties, will collect and count them exactly as they already
do. Nothing will change from the standpoint of distributing ballots, collecting
them and counting them.
Siri Cruise
2024-12-03 00:12:35 UTC
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Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
What is your alternative?
A direct popular vote for the president, of course — the only
intellectually defensible method.
Who runs the vote?
The states, as they already do.
After we dump the EC for direct popular, are different states
still allowed to have voters of different states different weights?
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides if mail in ballots are allowed?
Same.
Republicans in Congress will not interfere?
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides who gets to vote?
Federal election law.
What federal election law? Voters of different states have
different weights. What if Republicans in Congress enact election
contrary to existing state laws?

Currently the federal government can register in a state on a
voter's behalf. But according to the state's law.
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Who decides who goes on the ballots?
The parties and the states, as they now do.
Do you get to vote for Green, P+F, American Independent?
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
Who prints and distributes the ballots,
The states, as they now do.
No state deals with 300 million ballots for people thousand of
miles away.
Post by J Carlson
Post by Siri Cruise
and then collects up to 300 million ballots and counts them.
There are about *half* that many ballots, Narcissist Girl, you fat
twat. The states, via their counties, will collect and count them
exactly as they already do. Nothing will change from the
standpoint of distributing ballots, collecting them and counting
them.
I do not know about other states. In California homeless vote.
Your districts are decided on which sidewalk you usually sleep.
Unless every state has the same rule, it means California allows
more people than other states.
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J Carlson
2024-12-02 21:41:47 UTC
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Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
If all citizens of the USA are created equal, shouldn’t their votes count
equally?
Yes.
Post by Lawrence D'Oliveiro
In which case, why does that holdover from the slavery era, the Electoral
College, still exist?
Because Republiscums/QAnon, who until the last election had not had a
non-incumbent candidate win the popular vote since 1988, do not believe in
political equality for all citizens. They prefer a system that gives them a
built-in and unfair advantage.
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